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“Curled Up in a Ball of White Shame”?

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A student at an elite university recently wrote to the New York Times: “I’m riddled with shame. White Shame … I feel like my literal existence hurts people, like I’m always taking up space that should belong to someone else … Instead of harnessing my privilege for greater good, I’m curled up in a ball of shame.”

This unfortunate student illustrates the destructive insanity in teaching personal guilt over “white privilege” or any other racial identity. In previous generations, the idea that their skin color made them less worthy than others proved devastating to black people; now some young whites are encouraged to “curl up in a ball of shame.”

No one benefits from such insanity. As Dr. King made clear, in a decent society, individuals must be judged—and must judge themselves—on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

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  1. the democrat party is the permanent home of racism  •  Sep 12, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    Michael, I always wondered why you never tried to combat this type of racism on your show. You go kinda nutty when the issue of racism against racial minorities comes up, but you never really seemed to care about discrimination against white people. I remember several times when you just blew off white callers who complained about being discriminated against by making comments like "don't be a victim." Of course your response was completely different when a racial minority called complaining of discrimination, even if it seemed like a dubious claim. The whole concept of "white privilege" is an attack on white people. It is meant to incite hatred of white people. But it is okay because the only racism that the left cares about is racism against racial minorities. It doesn't matter if it is against white people.

    • Kevin Gorman  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 12:19 am

      I agree. it seems Mike is afraid to call out certain lack callers who call up and talk racist ideas. he had Eric Dyson on to promote his racist book. Also Mike takes shots at Trump and what he calls extreme right wingers but never apologizes for his relationship and never calls out his sleaze ball friend Lanny Davis.

      • the democrat party is the permanent home of racism  •  Sep 23, 2018 at 10:57 pm

        Yes, I was surprised when he was heaping praises on McCain. Now McCain isn't horrible. I consider him about average as a republican senator. But he clearly does not deserve all the praise that he got when he died. A lot of that praise was just dishonest. But after thinking about Medved's statements after McCain's death, I remember that Medved had Cory Booker on his show, likes Jennifer Ruben, and is great friends with Lanny Davis. It all makes sense when you consider that. Medved isn't the greatest judge of character.

        And yes Eric Michael Dyson, or whatever his name is, is a pseudo-intellectual. I can't believe Medved takes him seriously. But we know that Medved loves to "find common ground" and he has no problem finding that common ground with very questionable people.

  2. Ty  •  Sep 13, 2018 at 3:59 am

    Because most people talking about being victimized for being white are just frightened little conservatives with a persecution complex. And spare me with that title. Here is this gem again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM9JBMm2pkw

    That, is a descendant of the racist dixiecrats, no doubt that narrative was passed down from the daughters of the confederacy to give their distorted history, and when Johnson signed the civil rights bill those dixiecrat dems felt betrayed, and who was there to embrace them with open arms? Nixon with the southern strategy. But never mind, keep peddling that grifter Dinesh D'Souzas talking points that Michael allows to taint his show, keep spreading misinformation about reality.

    That guy in the video worrying about white grievance and victimhood is a hallmark of the reactionary right. The worst segment of your compromised lot.

    As for the talk about people on the left hating white people, some of them do. But that is nowhere close to a majority. But again, this is the problem with the modern age and modern media and the internet. Edge cases are put under a magnifying lens and reported to be far more widespread and rampant than they are. And those edge cases are used by weak minded victim whore conservatives to talk about how eternally oppressed they are by the holy evil of our times. Leftism.

    • Daniel Stackhouse  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 3:26 pm

      Ty,
      The Republicans passed a civil rights act in 1957 which created a permanent civil rights division in the Justice Department. In 1964, a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than did Democrats. None of this should be surprising – for decades every time anti-lynching legislation was proposed, it was blocked by Democrats, not Republicans. Legislation usually follows the way the public mood and the culture are going, not the other way around. LBJ sensed this and knew he needed to get blacks on the side of the Democratic party because too many northern whites from the old New Deal coalition were prospering and becoming more Republican. Nevertheless, the first time the old "Solid South" went Republican wasn't 1964 when civil rights was front and center nor 1968. It was not until 1972 that Nixon and the Republicans won the old south. What was the big issue that year? It wasn't civil rights legislation. That was old news. It was Vietnam, or more specifically, how do we extricate ourselves from Vietnam. The Democrats nominated McGovern who wanted an immediate withdrawal, global consequences be damned. On the other hand, Nixon wanted a gradual "Vietnamization" whereby the South Vietnamese would increase their role as we reduced ours. As for the "Southern Strategy" myth – the idea that Nixon stoked racism in order to win Southern votes – how come Nixon didn't win with the South until 1972 when civil rights were no longer on the radar? Nixon started the first government affirmative action program for crying out loud! How many Democrats can you name who switched parties? Strom Thurmond? I can name plenty of old Southern segregationist Democrats who never switched: Al Gore, Sr. (Tennessee), Robert Byrd (West Virginia), Ernest Hollings (South Carolina), J. William Fulbright (Arkansas – and also one of the first to call for surrendering in Vietnam).

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 6:05 pm

        Daniel Stackhouse
        You just made Ty's head explode. He is a total clueless, historical illiterate.
        Thank you for your wonderful contribution.
        You are on the MONEY!

      • Ty  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 3:17 am

        Past civil rights bills were blocked by southerners.

        This is why conservatives need to expand who they listen to. Too much Dinesh D'Souza in that screed. You are latched onto the wrong variable, party instead of region.

        Read the vote totals for the 1964 civil rights act.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_party_and_region

        More republicans from the old confederate states in the south voted against that bill, and more democrats in NON former confederate northern states voted in favor of it.

        The reason more republicans voted for the 1964 civil rights bill over all was because there were more democrats clustered in the south, but this was not a party based link of increased racial animus, it was REGIONAL. The numbers I just linked, and have repeatedly linked in comments on this site before show that clear as day.

        Those anti civil rights southern democrats had kids, and many of them changed from democrat to republican.

        Parties are NOT constant, people and attitudes change, there is no steady state conception of what it means to be a republican.

        Nixon was a California republican, not a southern one. You and other republicans want to link the democratic party as the party of real racism because its obscures the history and where people really stand today. Johnson, a democrat, signing the civil rights bill and goldwaters vocal opposition turned a lot of black people off the republican party. They knew the democratic part in NON former confederate states did not have the same degree of hostility and animus towards them, because it was more regional. And they happened to like the new deal more than the kind of libertarian free for all modern conservatism started to peddle.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 8:24 am

        Ty…
        Just like most things you got crawling around in your anti-American, leftist head… “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”

    • democrats - violating human rights for 190 years and counting  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 11:00 pm

      People who get their information from youtube videos have no credibility. I can't think of anything less intellectual other than getting your news from a comedian like Jon Stewart of Colbert. Your whole political ideology is based on finding a few idiots that you can allege are republicans or conservatives and then broad brush all republicans and conservatives based on those few. I hope some day you can let go of your hatred and bigotry and actually take an objective look at republicans/conservatives or at least judge the left by the same measure by which you judge those that you hate. BTW – the democrat party has been around for 190 years, can you tell me of any time in its history that its ideology has not been based on attacking a group based on race?

      • Ty  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 1:40 pm

        What about people that get most of their information from talk radio? For all the bitching about how awful the liberal media is, it is nothing compared to talk radio in its obsessive focus on hyper delusional conservative fears and deranged perceptions of reality. What is the difference between a talk radio host and someone who talks politics on youtube? Aside from more ads and an older demo, seems like the same damn thing to me.

        And no, my ideology is based on what conception of what is just and right, and it's informed by listening to both liberals and conservatives. I am not basing my assessment on what conservatives are about on a few yokels. I've spent literal YEARS listening to conservatives on talk radio, what obsesses them and enrages them. For DECADES they bitched and moaned about deficits, that lie has been exposed for all to see with Trump, what they really care about most of all, is tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations. If it comes to a choice between higher deficits lower taxes, they choose the latter every time.

        The more radical fringe is even willing to gut basic social services that there is broad consensus on, like public schools in Kansas with Brown back, even most conservatives eventually revolted because the fringe they elected based on the rhetoric they PRETEND they buy into, when actually implemented and the butchers bill comes do, they recoil against.

        Republicans are a sea of contradictions. They claim they care more about local government control, not wanting the big bad federal government intervening, then turn right around and seem to want to treat conservative state governments like ABSOLUTE sovereigns when it comes to the power they wield over localities. There were RURAL cities that were not being served by the big ISP companies when it came to expanding broadband, some tried to start municipal broadband and the companies who bought republicans off at the state level BLOCKED the efforts of people living in those local cities from enacting local solutions to local problems. So strange, when I listened to all those conservatives on talk radio they told me they WANTED more local control. Another lie, local control is merely convenient to them when it allows them to get their way based off who paid them, and many democrats are just as bad, but not AS bad and corrupt.

        When conservatives say they are against redistribution, and I read studies that suggest their support for redistributive programs varies wildly based on the RACE of the recipient, a feature that does not vary to anywhere near the same degree for liberals, it makes me think maybe conservatives are not ACTUALLY just motivated by sterile principled poliy concerns, and are largely an identitarian and reactionary and nativist movement.

        I based my opinion of conservatives by ACTUALLY LISTENING to them for years. What is your opinion of liberals and people on the left based on? What clowns like Mark Levin yell into his mike? I see what obsesses conservative media. I had NEVER heard of antifa until I listened to conservative media, they are less than a rounding error, but to listen to certain conservative sites and personalities, they are the center of mass of left wing thought and attitudes.

        To answer your last question, plenty of democrats were racists. MANY more in the past, but some today too. Some of those racist democrats no doubt put in racist policies where they were more concentrated, and most of that happened in the south, the source of sedition and rot for over a century because of the history of that region and its link to slavery and continued resistance to change. Today most southerners are not what I would consider racist, but the legacy of BS arguments that tried to reshape the historical record persists such that there are almost certainly more southern republicans (the party of LINCOLN !!!!!) that believe the civil war was a "war of northern aggression" than democrats.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 8:27 am

        Ty… moron…. of course you never heard of Antifa until you listened to "conservative radio", because you are obsessed with fake news. You act like if MSNBC doesn't report it, it doesn't exist. That's the bubble you leftists have created for yourself.
        Here is the LATEST AND GREATEST example of your FAKE NEWS!

        https://www.blackandblondemedia.com/2018/09/14/kosinski-fakenews-award-twc-mike-seidels-hurricaneflorence-drama/

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 8:50 am

        Show me ONE DAMN legitimate study that gives evidence that conservatives support for redistribution is based on race!

        You are such a f'ing joke of a human.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 9:01 am

        "my ideology is based on what conception of what is just and right"

        Please explain what is "just and right" about not controlling our borders?
        Inviting millions of uneducated, impoverished people from around the world into our country? Allowing them to destroy public education, bankrupt our healthcare system and literally steal resources from our poor US citizens?
        Then, arbitrarily raise taxes on "rich" US citizens to pay for it?

        What could possibly be "just and right" about that ideology?

      • Ty  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 2:58 pm

        Rizzo, I've already posted this study multiple times, have you ever bothered to read it?

        https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/8/16270040/trump-clinton-supporters-racist

        The more Trump supporting you are, the more the race of the recipient of housing assistance mattered to you, white face = more support from Trump supporters / black face = much less support for housing assistance from Trump supporters…

        It's almost as if the people most fond of Trump are what we expected, more nativists and preoccupied with white identarianism. How surprising, the candidate that was the most racially toxic that beat a field of 17 other republicans would garner the most support from the most anti non white factions of the country.

        Conservatives like to pride themselves on being principled, but this study peers deeper into what really drives much of their support of lack of support for policies. If it was MERELY Some principled support for or against housing assistance and redistribution, why would there be such stark differences in observed support based on the race of the recipient from the Trump supporting wing? And why is it that the liberals who supported Hillary showed the least amount of concern for race?

        It's almost like it's the liberals that are the LEAST identarian of all !!!! The liberals that support things based on the principle or like or dislike of the actual policy and not the IDENTITY of the recipient. And do you know why?

        Because of what I keep trying to EXPLAIN to you conservatives, your NATURES are more closed off than liberals, you are more selfish, more concerned with the well being of smaller in groups, not some strangers, not people who don't think like you or look like you.

        I have told you repeatedly, if some evangelical christian or rural Kentucky conservative that does not think like me or look like me gets sick and can't afford treatment, I WANT my tax dollars to help that person out. I don't CARE they are not in my social circle, I think they have basic value as a human being and are not throw away trash to leave on the street to die if they can't afford cancer meds. But you conservatives, if someone is outside your circles, god help them for all you care. Oh, black lady on welfare? WELFARE QUEEN !!!!! Must have been buying lobster on OUR DIME, she must not work, she must not deserve it, she is not like me, why are some of MY taxes going to help her? NOT MY PEOPLE, NOT MY TRIBE !!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDENTITY !!!!!!!!!

        Conservatism is FILLED to bursting with identarianism, you all are seemingly willfully blind to it, but it shines through clear as day to me. My support for liberal policies do not drop off if they help conservatives, because even though I despise so many of you, that does not mean I think if you get sick and can't pay for care you don't deserve help, EVEN IF you made mistakes in life that lead to that situation. I want more of ALL of our citizens to thrive, the difference is that my concern does not drop off a cliff like it does for so many of your brethren if it's not your in group.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 4:40 pm

        What part of legitimate study, do you not understand?

        Vox, publishing a hit-job on Trump supporters, conducted by left-wing hacks PROVES NOTHING!
        Step outside your bubble, you race-obsessed, moron.

        Read your own damn, worthless study!
        "it cannot determine whether Trump supporters and opponents are differentially reacting primarily to the white or black racial cue condition (or both)."

        You are SERIOUSLY DUMB!

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 17, 2018 at 5:49 pm

        Ty,
        Aren’t you even the least bit curious about a study that claims support for welfare is based on race, and then claims Trump supporters oppose welfare if its for black people?
        The FACT is, welfare OVERWHELMINGLY benefits white People!
        Now, are you going to say that we Trump supporters are racists against whites?
        You are TRULY PATHETIC!

  3. Rizzo  •  Sep 13, 2018 at 11:09 am

    Because most people talking about being victimized for being BLACK are just frightened little leftists/socialists with a persecution complex.

    Do you see now, how racist you are?

    • Ty  •  Sep 13, 2018 at 12:06 pm

      I see the asymmetry, but that group has more cause to look over their shoulder based on history than other groups.
      Blacks were enslaved in the US as a group, not whites. Blacks were kept down in the south with segregationist laws, not whites, and if a white was seen to transgress, the black was the main target of punishment.

      Does that history lead to a lot of black people having a chip over their shoulder and seeing too many ghost threats, sure, but that pales in comparison to white grievance talking about how not restricting immigration = white genocide because we allow non whites to immigrate to the country. Now a relatively small number actually say that explicitly, but if you were being HONEST about the conservative id for once in your deceitful life, do you REALLY think that the general aversion to non white immigrants (and we are past the LIES about illegal immigration being the sticking point, multiple conservatives are on the record of wanting to reduce LEGAL immigration, it is not MERE illegality that bothers them) has NOTHING to do with white identarianism to a large extent? A sense of threat that THOSE people are not like us, so they must not be allowed to increase too much. Danger, Danger. I pick up an AWFUL lot of that kind of sentiment from the nativist faction of the right, and people like you and others are fond of lying about that, lying about your fears and what drives you, cloak yourselves in legality, as if laws and completely unmoored with underlying values and preferences and fears and a sense of what is right and proper, and what is not.

      • democrats - violating human rights for 190 years and counting  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 11:18 pm

        I think we should end all immigration. I don't see the correlation between that and some "white identity" movement or whatever you are going on about. One of the main reasons I think we should end immigration is because a large population, think China and India, is problematic. And in this age where we constantly hear about robots taking jobs in the near future, we don't need to be importing low wage/low skill workers who will likely be replaced by robots. Additionally, I think the quality of life in USA is going down because we have too many people in this country. The city where I was born become unlivable over the years because of continued growth. I moved to a much smaller town and the same thing is happening here. We need to rethink the idea that a constantly increasing population is a good thing.

      • Toekneemac  •  Sep 19, 2018 at 4:16 am

        “but that group has more cause to look over their shoulder based on history than other groups.“

        Wasn’t it Jesse Jackson who said: “There is nothing more painful to me . . . than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

        It seems they are still looking over their shoulders, but not at white people. And the homicide data and Chicago backs that up.

      • Ty  •  Sep 23, 2018 at 10:30 pm

        Most blacks are killed by other blacks, it makes perfect sense that peoples empirical observations materialize in their observed stereotypes. The difference between liberals and conservatives is the liberals make a better effort to not surrender to ones expectations based on stereotypes. Conservatives? Open season. Screw welfare, the BLACKS are just lazy, while "I" work hard, those BLACKS are rolling up in their Cadillac Escalades getting lobster on MY dime.

        Rizzo made a stupid comment about this logic not making sense because most people on welfare being white not black, even though the percentages of blacks on welfare are higher the absolute number is smaller. True, but the vision of the welfare queen is almost certainly over represented in peoples minds compared to how many actually exist, and it's always easier to be more hostile to an outsider getting something than someone perceived as more part of your community.

        That is why that Vox article detailing that study on the variation in support for housing assistance is so damning. Of course, Rizzo rejects the finds because Vox, so how could the data be true. That is his only card to play, because accepting the results would be too devastating as it suggests clear as day that the group most concerned with identity of the recipients of aid are NOT the liberals, NOT the left, NOT the ones the right always bitches are too focused on identity issues, it's LARGE chunks of the right that loves to pretend THEY want race blind behavior. Then why the difference in support based on a BLACK face?

        Conservatives, your hooves are showing. So sorry for pointing out you are not as pure as you think you are. How dare I, shine a light into the darkness that I see in you, better to pretend that the pimary source of rot are liberals like myself, who want EVERYONE who can't afford to pay for medical treatment get covered, I am the monster, not you, not you all who weight the IDENTITY of the recipient more heavily in determining who is worthy.

        How dare I hold up MY universalist standards as HIGHER and superior to yours, all the while you pretend it's about principle this, principle that, when the reality of how your side ACTUALLY behaves.

        If you all are screaming the screen now, let me ease your irritation a bit. If we liberals ever get power again, and implement our policies. As much as I and so many other people on the left despise how you conservatives think, we will not shut you out. Because those same universalist policies cover you too. There are limits to our vindictiveness, where even if you are not among our tribe, we have higher minimum standards of what we consider worthy of support, so WE, unlike you, would not choose to construct society where a poor/struggling conservative DIES for lack of funds to get medical treatment.

        Take solace in that fact, that IF we ever gain power, we won't let you die.

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 13, 2018 at 2:02 pm

      Why would I have an aversion to any person of any color?
      I’m not so shallow as you and your entire leftists movement:

      What color do you assume I am?

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 1:05 pm

        I mean SERIOUSLY…. who the hell are these "Evil White People" anyway?!?!?!?
        Is anyone in America pure-bread anything anymore? What does it even mean to be white, black, brown, whatever!?!?!? And who cares?

        You know who cares! Its the LEFT! They know they can focus people on things that are shallow and have ZERO MEANING, and use it, to DIVIDE UP AMERICA and DESTROY IT!

  4. Joseph Toth  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    Are these students that weak minded? Have they no reasoning power ! They shouldn't be in school, they should be on a psychiatrist couch. There's something seriously wrong, if they can't see through all the propaganda of lies concerning white supremacy etc. I think the lowlifes that are preaching such garbage, should be held accountable. There is a difference between telling children that it's your opinion, and telling children as if it were fact. These children are accepting what these teachers and/or professors tell them as fact. When it should be there opinion.

  5. nicholas  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    mr. medved. I am a 63 year old "black man"(personally I consider myself simply, a man), and I totally agree with you AND dr. king.

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 6:02 pm

      Amen Nicholas!

  6. BEETA  •  Sep 14, 2018 at 5:30 pm

    I AM WHITE AND PROUD OF IT. I AM WHAT GOD MADE ME TO BE AND GOD MAKES NO MISTAKES. WE ALL ARE WHAT GOD MADE US TO BE. ONLY IGNORANT PEOPLE WOULD FEEL GUILT THAT THEY ARE ONE THING OR THE OTHER.. DON'T LET PEOPLE MAKE YOU FEEL BAD ABOUT WHO YOU ARE. YOU BELONG HERE AS MUCH AS THEY DO . YOUR COLOR IS WHO YOU ARE. GET OVER THE STUPIDITY THAT YOU HAVE ALLOWED A BUNCH OF IGNORANT PEOPLE MADE YOU TO FEEL. THANK GOD FOR WHAT YOU ARE AND HEALTHY.

  7. billie standifer  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 3:45 am

    If a black person moves back to their home land, they would find a mirror image of the life style they had made in their adopted home.

    If a white person moves back to their home land, they would find a mirror image of the home they left behind.

  8. Pat Patterson  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 12:00 pm

    Hopefully we are striving for a society where a person's skin color, country of origin and other personal attributes such as religion do not matter when it comes their basic treatment in civil society. That said, we've got a long way to go yet to achieve this. Non-whites are well within their rights to point out when examples of injustice occur, especially when it is at the hands of the police. Non-whites are also well within their rights point out all of the different ways society is skewed against them, from educational opportunity, job opportunity, treatment by the courts, and in many other ways. They want white people to stop for a moment to realize in how many ways our various civil systems are subtly rigged in their favor. They point out that many, or even most whites may not even realize how pervasive this tilt towards them is. THIS is what the protests and agitation are about. Its not about trying to shame whites. Its simply about trying to wake them up, to get them to see what is really happening to the non-whites in the country. Sometimes it takes some listening to actually understand and have empathy for their situation. I don't think any white person needs to have any guilt or shame — just empathy.

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 15, 2018 at 3:20 pm

      I wish we reach that society, but we NEVER will, because of RACISTS, like Ty.
      He is a hate-monger, acting like he lives in pre-civil war America.
      He’s absolutely pathetic!

    • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 5:38 pm

      Pat; I get your sentiment but the problem is that one cannot call for racial equality and have certain people get preference treatment because of the color of their skin. Whites have had decades empathizing with minorities. That "empathy" has turned into guilt and shame and it has got to stop.

      I remember giving my son this analogy:
      There are 100 Whites trying to get into a college. Most denied will blame the economic system (not poor enough or too poor) or a bunch of other issues.
      100 Asian denied will look at their accomplishments and wrack their brains trying to figure out what more they could have done.
      100 Blacks denied will call racism.

      People being shot or harassed by police runs the same lines. Sorry but if one is serious about racial equality, one must get rid of that race card period.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 16, 2018 at 9:46 pm

        Nani….. beautifully stated!

  9. Nani Tavares  •  Sep 17, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    Jim, sigh once again you have changed my mind. I have come to the sad conclusion that you are right in that the GOP doesn't have not just Trump's but our back. This 11th hour attack on Kavanaugh is so sickening and yet, I don't see the push back from the GOP. We must take this accusation seriously, they insist. Ah, no. Unless Ford can tell us WHEN it happened, WHERE it happened, and WHY she didn't tell SOMEBODY almost 4 decades ago, we should take what she says with a grain of salt. I mean, YOU could have your whole life ruined by anyone making an accusation. Her inability to say when it happened does not allow Kavanaugh to disprove her; he could have been in Europe at the time! Her where and why and how she got to the party stretches credibility. I think the GOP should take ONE day to question her and him and if she cannot come up with proof, the GOP should insist on a vote and make it VERY costly to accuse someone. If this is a hoax, Ford needs to go to jail and Diane needs to resign.

  10. Ty  •  Sep 18, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    More meditations from outside the conservative bubble.

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/8/21/17687402/kylie-jenner-luck-human-life-moral-privilege

    Now, beware conservatives, the article is on vox, so steel yourselves from the onslaught of devil worshiping and yet also godless lefties tossing communism and full socialism against the walls!

    In fact, why don't most of you not bother clicking, I don't think you can survive the written words contained therein. A moral justification for SOME redistribution in society being better than none, which is what conservatives tend towards.

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 18, 2018 at 5:08 pm

      Ty….
      Go educate yourself, and do a basic search on how much money the US redistributes.
      And it NEVER DECREASES…. EVER.
      It’s ALWAYS MORE, and it’s NEVER ENOUGH for you lefties.

      Please quit embarrassing yourself…. it’s quite pathetic!

    • Toekneemac  •  Sep 19, 2018 at 4:08 am

      The concept of “luck” is not a new one or unbeknownst.
      Of course there are those who are lucky, he’ll we have all been lucky at one point or another.
      Sure some have better luck than others in almost all aspects of life.
      But you use this article in an attempt to belittle conservatives based on a preconceived notion that hard work, determination, and will cannot be a substitute for luck. And the article uses the concept of “luck” as a way to favor socialism. (See how “lucky” those people in Venezuela are?)
      Many people who start a business fail more than once. Was it bad luck or lack of know how? Both, I’m sure, in some instances. But their are many who keep going and eventually achieve success. That was determination, not luck.
      Obviously some have to work harder than others, as the article points outs out, but that is life. And as Conservatives, we appreciate that and THAT, is what makes us conservatives, that in America, the only thing holding one back, (besides govt regulations and taxes) is himself. It’s all how you maneuver.

      • Toekneemac  •  Sep 19, 2018 at 4:10 am

        Sorry for the misspells. This ain’t Facebook where I can edit.

      • Ty  •  Sep 20, 2018 at 5:13 pm

        Do people on the right know any other countries other than Venezuela? I am genuinely curious.

        How about :

        Sweden
        Denmark
        Norway
        Finland

        Germany
        France
        UK

        Israel

        EVERY single one of those countries are capitalistic market economies, but it's not PURE/RAW capitalism with ZERO socialized services. EVERY country, the US included, has socialized services. EVERY SINGLE ONE. All those listed also support more universal healthcare coverage, while in the US we let it be more of a free for all. Unless you are older (single payer), or are a veteran (NHS style government owned hospitals and employers of doctors and nurses), or dirt/gutter level poor (medicaid – unless you are in an area where indifferent DEATH loving republicans refused to expand coverage because of their utter nihilism about the nature of people being "given" too much in society by not letting them stay sick and die or wither if they can't afford medical treatment).

        Hard work and determination almost always helps in life, that is a message to teach and instill on the FRONT END of society, and that is how I and most other liberals on the LEFT want to maintain the incentives on the front end of society. Do I want who gets into college or who gets hired for a job NOT based on merit? NO, I do NOT want merit removed from the calculations. I WANT greater rewards to go to people who get better results, whether they worked harder or not on the front end. And yes, working harder and being more conscientious makes people much more likely to succeed and thrive. So again, on the FRONT END, I want a pure pure meritocracy to reign supreme.

        But here comes the cosmic difference between me and so many of you. On the back end, I do not want to PRETEND like you all, that outcomes are COMPLETELY based on what individuals put into something. Some people work harder and do worse, some people have trash social circles where their minor mistakes compounded and were harder to correct over time where others who were much bigger f*ck ups in life were surrounded by enough support and wealth they got 9 more chances and lives to get back on track. People are not equal in their talent and aptitudes, so that while working HARD is almost always a requirement to get ahead in many lucrative fields, not having the talent in certain areas acts as a weight dragging people down.

        On the back end it's NOT ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU DO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Now, what do you do with that OBVIOUSLY correct analysis? Listen closely, conservatives, this is important.

        You Minimize some of the negative consequences of being less "lucky" in life.

        (for Rizzo – preschool class interlude – Minimize =/= ELIMINATE !!!)

        What does that mean? Does that mean people who are less financially well off get to live in any house they want? No. Drive any car they want? No. Get the same earnings as people who produce much more than they do and have larger contributions to the economy? No.

        But one thing it definitely means for most people on the left, that access to quality healthcare and drugs that save lives is not going to be based on ability to pay, we want to SOCIALIZE those costs (which does not make us a socialist country for doing so btw) because we want SOME lower bounds on how far we let people fall based on things they do not control.

        And here is the most difficult part of all, especially for you conservative nihilists. SOME people, will not have the funds to afford medical treatment because of what THEY did, bad choices THEY made. In that toxic nihilism of the conservative mind/soul, if we don't as a society let the negative consequence for all things being the absolute gutter, like DEATH because you can't afford medical treatment, then we will create some runaway negative feedback loops where we will have ever increasing numbers of people sitting on their ass doing nothing and expecting free healthcare. Will we? You don't think the positive incentives like not living like a bum, and having more material goods and comfort in life are enough carrots to do better? We don't have universal healthcare now and we seem to already have a lot of homelessness, you think that would be much worse if we socialized the cost of medical care?

        You see, conservatives, you are magnets to negative consequences and POTENTIAL downsides like flies to sh*t. Can't let the gays serve openly, SOCIAL EXPERIMENT, what will happen to our effectiveness at fighting!

        Answer : Not a god damn thing, nothing negative happened.

        You biggest flaws as human beings, derived from your conservative natures, is presuming that unless the sticks of society preserve NAILS and spikes, we can't get the behavioral changes we want.

        Nowhere were these ASSUMPTIONS more shown to be false than the HOPE program in Hawaii, where they had decades long jail times for many offenses or violating parole. Gotta have the most severe punishments to deter bad behavior, gotta have DEATH being a consequence of not earning enough money afford treatment to encourage people to get their lives together. Turns out, the experiment they tried of getting rid of long term jail sentences for non violent crime, and shifting to a model of more CERTAIN and smaller punishments, like a few weeks in jail for violations rather than extra years, was vastly superior at reducing recidivism than the BIGGER consequence.

        You THINK you know what darkness will come if we don't allow the absolute gutter consequences to stand, like letting people DIE if they can't afford treatment, and you need to have that conservative nihilism slapped out of your corrupted souls.

        I am willing to assume that SOME people will be worse off without the specter of death, SOME, but unlike you conservative, I don't ONLY focus on the bad possibilities, I look at the upsides too, like eliminating medical bankruptcies minimizing the larger number of people that are NOT bums that are wiped out financially by medical issues or allowing them to live because we as a society make sure they get the medicine they need and don't like like you compromised evangelical christians doing the polar OPPOSITE of christ and turn AWAY the sick.

        There are plenty of other sticks, but you nihilists think you can't get rid of any lest society descend into the abyss. I don't expect any of you to change fast enough, we have to outnumber you and beat you and change this ourselves as liberals. And when the sky does not fall, the sun still shines, and more people are better off, then you will forget you were the barriers to that better future all along. But so long as we get the better outcomes, that will be enough for me.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 20, 2018 at 8:57 pm

        Ty….
        “EVERY single one of those countries are capitalistic market economies, but it's not PURE/RAW capitalism with ZERO socialized services.”

        Where does “PURE/RAW capitalism with ZERO socialized services.” exist?
        Where has it EVER existed in our lifetime?
        You act like your so GD progressive and open to new ideas, yet you oppose the most progressive idea in human history…. FREEDOM!

      • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 12:30 am

        Ty, I was born and raised in Hawaii and no where have I ever heard of the type of imprisonment you stated. But let us say, for the sake of argument that you are right. You do realize that you have made our point for us, for prisons are run by the government and you just spent a paragraph telling us how the government screwed that up. By the way, the Hope program was a probation program that allowed various "intervention" not jail time.

        Ty, Ty, you fail to see that the difference isn't what the goals are but how to get there. You believe, despite all evidence to the contrary that government should be the one to get us there. We believe in humanity; in their basic goodness, charity, and fairness. We have faith in people who came together and built a nation of unheard of concepts like freedom, rights, equality.

      • Toekneemac  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 4:49 am

        Ty,

        Nice rant.

        What you leftists don’t understand is that it is not up to you, as a collective ideology, (which can only mean bigger government) to regulate how far people rise or fall.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 7:24 am

        Uh…. Ty…. Moron….
        "access to quality healthcare and drugs that save lives is not going to be based on ability to pay, we want to SOCIALIZE those costs"

        Please, please, please…. Do some basic research on how much of medical costs are already socialized.
        So, the very system that you bitch about, is largely controlled by government.

        Let's try FREDOM!

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 9:52 am

        Ty
        Let me help you… Government funds nearly two-thirds of U.S. health care costs: American Journal of Public Health study.
        All you do is bitch about how awful US healthcare is, and your dumbass answer is: Give government more control.
        How can you leftists be so stupid and have so much tunnel-vision?

      • Ty  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 6:44 pm

        @Nani

        Mark Kleiman has multiple discussions of the program, here is a brief run down of some of the results

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0jxFG-OO_w

        Just look Mark up on youtube if you want to see more, he used to be a UCLA professor, but has since shifted elsewhere.

        But the lesson there is uncertain punishment, with high negative consequences was vastly less effective than swift and certain punishment, even if the incidental consequences were much smaller. Drop the sledge hammer, get a bb gun.

        The FEAR that so infests the conservative psyche that there will inevitably be some runaway falling out of the ground if we have some socialized service in some spheres is just that, a fear that is usually unfounded. Making sure people who can't afford life saving medicine is mostly going to save lives, not make them worse, and that is worth you and I and all the rest of us spending money on.

        Not via charity with free riders and lumpy distribution, universal coverage and expenses where everyone puts in.

      • Ty  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 6:51 pm

        @Toekneemac

        If someone is self destructive then no one can save those people but themselves, but that does not imply that their family and yes, society can't provide some supports for people having troubles.

        We most certainly can ensure that if you are not financially able to afford insulin medication you need to survive, we as a society have your back. If that person wants to shoot up heroin and waste away instead of live, then yes, ultimately that is on them and not everyone can be saved. You conservatives love using the excuse that because ultimately people are responsible for themselves that the rest of us are absolved from any responsibility in how we construct society. That last is entirely on us, we don't HAVE to let people die if they get sick and know how to save them just because they can't afford treatment. You CHOOSE that reality because of your own selfish ME and MINE nature.

        And I judge you all harshly for your sadism.

      • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 22, 2018 at 5:37 pm

        Ty, you can google the Hope program you know. But as I said,even IF I gave you the point that this program was what you claim, it was, according to you, a failure, thus you are still making the point for me because it was government run. Government programs after programs have very little success but for some reason you want more government control. Now does this make any sense?

  11. Rizzo  •  Sep 20, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    How about the desperation of the leftists, on full display, for all to see with Kavanaugh.
    Could the left be any more pathetic?
    The 2 greatest enemies of the left in America: the will of the people, and the US Constitution.
    Kavanaugh represents both!

  12. Rizzo  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 11:17 am

    Ty…. with 2/3 of all US Healthcare spending coming from SOCIALIZED GOVERNMENT FUNDING, would you say the US is more "ZERO socialized services" or "Pure/Raw Capitalism"?

    Now, PLEASE, I implore you to stop embarrassing yourself. You have no command of the FACTS!

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 21, 2018 at 11:45 am

      CORRECTION

      Ty…. with 2/3 of all US Healthcare spending coming from SOCIALIZED GOVERNMENT FUNDING, would you say the US is more "ZERO socialized services and Pure/Raw Capitalism" or do we "SOCIALIZE those costs"?

      Now, PLEASE, I implore you to stop embarrassing yourself. You have no command of the FACTS!

  13. Toekneemac  •  Sep 22, 2018 at 5:50 am

    Ty,

    I support society helping people, I do. It’s a work of mercy.

    I just don’t support the government trying to be the avenue to do it all. Because eventually, they become the final say in every aspect of our life and they already have too much of a say between the state and local governments.

    You liberals are so fucking arrogant that you people do not even try to sway conservatives to your viewpoint. You think you swayed anyone here? Of course not so all you are is an antagonist. If you were is smart as you think you are, you would not waste your time here.
    No, you are here because you are arrogant.

    • Rizzo  •  Sep 22, 2018 at 7:44 am

      Precisely! I don’t know if Ty does this out of convenience or stupidity. But, every argument ends with the solution being more government control, and less individual freedom.
      In his apparent shallow mind, if you oppose government controlling 100% of our healthcare, then you must oppose healthcare generally. If you oppose government controlling 100% of charity, then you oppose charity altogether. It’s like he can not conceive of any way of doing anything without the heavy hand of government involvement. It’s like our labor, our hard-earned money must go to Washington and be blessed by our Godly leaders, who can then BEST determine how to spend our money. We, individuals, are far too stupid, and far too selfish for any form of self-determination.

    • Ty  •  Sep 23, 2018 at 10:16 pm

      I'm not actually trying to persuade people here. If I was I would not be so acidic towards conservatives, I would not name call, I would not constantly remind you I am not one of you and that I am not on board your world view.

      My main reason for being here in all honestly, is to vent. And there just happen to be conservatives here to vent towards, and it's more cathartic for me having conservatives hear exactly what I think of them, and their arguments and attitudes and beliefs.

      My arrogance and condescension towards the ridiculousness of conservative beliefs and attitudes is perfectly justified. Especially to someone from my background, a liberal who has spent literal decades listening to conservatives bitch and moan and pretend they alone were the builders of the nation, the only tax payers, the only "makers," the one true guardians of justice and right, of proper morality, of better trade offs for civilization. The arrogance and unchecked presumption in your media bubbles is incalculable.

      I see this repulsive construct you all have created and want to lash out at it and expose it for what it is. But I'm not delusional enough to think it will sway many if any of you. It is enough that you all are more on alert that the entire universe does not buy into your narratives, that you are not as righteous and just and noble as you pretend to be, none of you deserve those layers of self righteousness and certainty you feel. So even if I have no intention of persuading you, I like pointing out just how different the views of others can diverge from your own.

      And last thought to leave you all with. I am not alone.

      • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 23, 2018 at 10:53 pm

        Ty, the self righteousness has not been on the part of conservatives. In fact that is precisely why the liberal double standard works so well. Liberals call on our desire for fairness and doing the right thing and to "prove" it, we back off when liberals push their agenda.

        The problem is that Liberals have gone to far. Especially with this Kavanaugh situation. It is sickening that in order to support women, we must demonize men. It is not enough to live a decades full of good, one must be perfect. No, let us be totally honest, not "one" but conservatives. ANY mud found on a conservative makes him/her unacceptable. This is why many love Trump; he is full of imperfections and makes no apology for it. You can't fling mud on someone covered with mud.

        As I watch the Dems ruin a good man's life, I am heartbroken that these people are Americans. I thought of them as misguided and confused people who had too much time on their hands. Now I know the depth to which they will stoop and I don't know if we can go back.

        And in this realization, I know that I am not alone.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 23, 2018 at 11:58 pm

        Good or bad, guilt or innocence truth or lies, matters NOT to today's Liberals/Leftists. The ends justify the means… and by any means necessary to further their agenda.
        This is all very reminiscent of what Harry Reid did to Romney. He lied about Romney not paying taxes in 10 years. When confronted with the reality of his lie, Reid said, "He didn't win, did he"?
        Literally NOTHING matters to leftists, but furthering their Anti-American agenda.

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