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Is Same-Sex Attraction Beyond Question or Criticism?

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California’s radical state legislature is debating a law that would punish any professionals who work to help patients overcome same-sex attraction.

Assembly Bill 2943 strictly prohibits “any practices that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation” or efforts  “to “reduce sexual…feelings toward individuals of the same sex.” In other words, a therapist can try to help a married man stop flirting with pretty women at work, but if he helps that same patient overcome attractions to handsome young men at work, then he’ll be punished.

This misguided bill tramples on freedom of speech and liberty of religious expression, while restricting options for people grappling with painful, personal problems. While organizations and practitioners can challenge the institution of marriage all they want, homosexuality would be protected from question or criticism. This is a bad bill that deserves decisive defeat.

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  1. Ty  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 1:32 am

    One of the most destructive things for both gay men and the women is the religious right compelling those trapped in their communities to marry the opposite sex and how miserable it makes those people.

    Here is a story about someone who went through this kind of barbaric anti gay camp.

    https://seriouspod.com/sio140-surviving-gay-conversion-therapy-with-tim-rymel-2/

    He never stopped being gay, he suppressed his attractions, but that did not make him attracted to his wife, who he later divorced, wasting time, and with children no less.

    The existence of gay people is not something for religious people to correct to try to align reality with what their pathetic little holy books say is the good and just and righteous life.

    Your good/loving/JUST god you all SAY you believe in, demands men and women mate with the opposite sex, engineers attraction of the opposite sex for most people, but in some small percent of the population does (or allows via nature) the exact opposite same sex attraction to occur.

    Now you have this JUST god demand that gay people, that are not attracted to women, marry women or remain celibate throughout life. This JUST god, who is either so cruel or sloppy or both, in his creation, that he could not just snap his indifferent fingers and align attraction with what he supposedly wants to be the righteous path.

    You know who allowed that reality to exist? GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GOD did that, GOD made gays the way they are.

    G
    O
    D
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And in the ever expanding arrogance of the religious conservative mind, you seek to cover your frightened little eyes and pretend that reality is not so. Your God is not just, is not kind, is not loving, his demands are a ridiculous joke, and any person who chooses to follow such dictates, EVEN IF he was real, is following the dictates of a malevolent deity.

    Created sick, and ordered to be well. So loving God, THANK you for these burdens.

    The existence of gay people is a living testament to the emptiness of religious doctrine, and social conservatives can't stand that they are so accepted for the way they are in modern times can they? They have their own camps to try to make it go away.

    Pathetic. It's not going away, conservatives. It will always be here, and there is nothing wrong with it. Please tell me how wrong it is so I can slap that fool opinion out of your mouths and rain the same kind of social rebuke you so crave right back at you.

    Social Conservative : But God said it !!!!!

    And like a good little moral supplicant/slave you get RIGHT on your knees and obey like a dog. Disgusting morality, bestial souled people. I look forward to an ever shrinking space for this kind of belief to reign, it is dying by the thousands one funeral at a time, and not being replaced in the same numbers.

    • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 3:34 pm

      Ty, good grief, your hatred and anger is just not healthy. The problem is that the Left is showing its totalitarian head again and freedom loving Americans are objecting. If a person, for whatever reason, don't want to be gay and seeks professional help, then why shouldn't both parties participate? Speaking of God, who made the Left the arbiter of the CHOICES of other people?

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 3:54 pm

        The left believes in God, ONLY to the extent that they can create false standards to which they try to hold us. All the while, they bash God and religion, and do whatever the hell they want, to further their leftist agenda and the destruction of America.

      • Ty  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 4:25 pm

        Why does the person not want to be gay?

        If a person likes the taste of strawberry ice cream and not chocolate ice cream, how many of those people think to themselves, I want to change what I find more tasteful?

        No, you social conservatives create (and want to expand) a social field of disapproval and rebuke and not belonging towards gays, it's no wonder in that environment some of them who don't want to lose their family ties and friendship ties for being gay openly. I wish they would all just abandon the haters among you, family does not want to associate with a gay son? Then let the family eat dust and air as THEY burned their own bridge to their own child/sibling.

        Don't accept the terms of social conservative haters.

        It would be one thing if being gay was some kind of societal harm, like being attracted to kids and acting on it. But it is not. It remains a tiny percentage of the population, it is not a real threat to procreation, and while it might not be purely genetic, it's not the kind of thing that can be easily socialized into others because human wiring of attraction is more sticky than that.

        And yes, I hate the haters. Guilty as charged. Someone wants to abandon their own child if they are gay, or only keep them around or tolerate them if they go to camp to try to change away from being gay, they deserve my ire.

      • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 6:28 pm

        Ty, again WHY is it any of your business? It’s THEIR choice and if they find a professional who is willing to help them in their decision, why should the government get involved? This is a prime example of liberals wanting to change society to reflect their view point. They claim to be pro choice and tolerant but scream at the choices others make. They ridicule others’ beliefs and opinions. More, they insist on controlling people’s thought and speech. Ty, there is something seriously wrong with the Left.

      • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 6:50 pm

        This may be a repeat but my previous post disappeared.

        Ty, I thought Liberals were pro-choice, yet you want to interfere with a decision made by one person, seeking help with that decision from another. WHY the decision was made is NONE of your business and seeking to change a whole bunch of people to make it easier to embrace YOUR viewpoint is, in my opinion, dangerous and dark. In America, people are entitled to their opinions and their thoughts. You may not agree with how they deal with their relationships but it is THEIR relationships NOT yours. You may not like what they believe, but it is THEIR thoughts and it is the height of arrogance to push YOUR beliefs and thoughts on them.

        This bill is the government trying to interfere with a decision made by a private citizen and is the definition of totalitarianism. The fact that you see nothing wrong with this tells me a lot about you and your priorities.

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 7:18 pm

        It’s like everything with the left. They are inconsistent, unprincipled ideologues.
        They are pro-choice until they’re not.
        They are for big, bad federal government, until they’re not.
        They are pro-woman, until they’re not.
        Whatever furthers their

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 7:20 pm

        It’s like everything with the left. They are inconsistent, unprincipled ideologues.
        They are pro-choice until they’re not.
        They are for big, bad federal government, until they’re not.
        They are pro-woman, until they’rhe not.
        Whatever furthers their agenda, they are for… until something exactly opposite, contradictory, and hypocritical furthers their agenda… then they are for that.

      • Ty  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 8:50 pm

        Nani, if some closet case is brainwashed enough to surrender themselves to some anti gay religious bigots to pray the gay away, then ultimately, that is on them. But I'd want that left to adults at a minimum for being sent to some external camps for conversion therapy, not minors. Let the adults decide of their own free will, not be compelled by your anti gay bigot allies who just want to deny reality.

        None of that lets the religious right off the hook though, if the religious right was not hostile to gays, the desire to have those kinds of anti gay conversion therapy camps and services would dry up. YOU create the demand by your own hatreds, don't you dare expect to be spared my contempt for the role YOU and others like you play in this sick little show.

        So go ahead and choose to keep those houses of terror and shame open, go ahead and pressure and berate and ostracize to convince gays in socially conservative families to "choose" to enter therapy for "their" benefit.

        And I will continue to choose to berate you vicious little hate mongers for the vicious little anti gay bigots you are. I don't even know if I want the camps banned. I'd rather more and more and more of society at large socially ostracize your hateful attitudes to the point where they are so pressed against the wall and there is so much support for the people you shun that no one feels impelled to bend the knee to your barbarism.

      • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 11:57 pm

        Ty, who are the haters? You are the one that want to shame those who disagree with you and tear down their relationships. You are the one calling them names and showing intolerance. You reek of bigotry: religious bigotry.

        Ty, don't you get it? The more you stand there in your arrogance, demanding to say what YOU will and won't allow, the more you show your true colors of totalitarianism, your desire to rule and dictate. Your disrespect for others and unwillingness to consider other people's rights is horrifying. You do your side no favor.

        For you have shown an ugliness that is nauseating.

    • LR  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 11:36 pm

      Do you consider yourself a tolerant person?

      • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 12:09 am

        LR, are you talking to me? I don't put the kind of hypocritical importance of tolerance that the Left does. I "tolerate" people's right to think and say most things (not those that will lead to violence). I "tolerate" the right to be as stupid as a person wants to be. I "tolerate" people's feelings, except when those feelings want to deprive other people of their right to say and think and believe. I tolerate people's choices, except if that choice hurts someone else. I tolerate people's customs as long as they don't try to dictate to the rest of us.

        I think it is far more important to RESPECT people and to remember that it is just one step from "social justice" to tyranny.

    • Mike Ruzza  •  Jul 20, 2018 at 3:55 pm

      God made men and women; that is in the Bible. People created homo attraction and sex; the Bible addresses that too, to the consternation of those who were homos via death and destruction. States can and have sanctioned gay marriage; and I don't disagree. Gays are Americans and should have the same rights–not more or less than other citizens. That's where it should end. Stop agitating to force Christian's or anyone else to accept your deviant behavior. Many churches will even perform marriages; but some will not and that is their RIGHT to refuse. You LGBT don't get to legislate rights to suit yourselves above and beyond those of us who are not of your persuasion. Stop whining and accept the limitations of your disgusting lifestyle. If you persist in trying to rub my face in it; then you will have to accept the consequences of your misguided beliefs and actions. Got a problem with that? Then see your local representatives; and reread the Constitution.

  2. Rizzo  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    Man does not equal woman.
    Therefore, Man -+ Man does not and can not equal Man + Woman.

    And leftists claim to stand up for science.

    • Paul  •  Jul 13, 2018 at 10:36 pm

      Rizzo what happens when science can? It may be in the future but tech like nanobots could allow people to change them selfs down to the DNA what then? Will this argument even exist? When you can change your sex like changing a pair of socks. Not in our lifetime but a time will come when science fiction becomes science fact.

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 12:22 am

        What happens when up is down, black is white, and bad is good?
        A future where Dogs are cats, fish can fly and birds can swim.

        Sounds like The Island of Misfit Toys.

        Thanks for sharing Paul. You are a regular visionary!

    • Paul  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 4:50 am

      Does the future scare you? I'm sure people felt the same thing when they were told that man could travel the skies and survive on the bottom of the ocean or be given life-saving organ transplants. Why would this be any different? Also in the story of the Misfit toys, Santa finds them all wonderful and loving homes so that sounds pretty great.

  3. Rizzo  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 7:31 am

    Ty… and to much lesser extent, Paul…

    Regardless of how much you hate the concept of God and despite your disdain of religion…
    Let's suppose that Adam and Eve were actually Adam and Steve. Or, what would have resulted, if Noah's Ark was filled with nothing but gay animals?

    Nobody that I know, hates gay people. They find it unusual. They are perplexed by a world that promotes such unnatural behavior. People can be whatever they want to be. They can pretend to be whatever they want to be. But, enough with trying to convince people that a gay lifestyle is normal, and is exactly the equivalent of a heterosexual lifestyle… because it is objectively not the same.

    Ty, you are so put-off by the idea of someone trying to "pray the gay away", but society is guilty of exactly the opposite. There is nothing, but a constant drumbeat of the left, praying for the gay to stay… praying for the gay not to delay, and praying for it not to allay.

    Suppose Ty, you finally got your way… you waved your magic wand, and everybody that wanted to chop off their penis did, and every girl, who was unsure, dressed like a boy and eventually pretended to be men. Lets say, you finally succeeded, and convinced the world that being gay is TOTALLY NORMAL. And eventually, the entire world became homosexuals.
    If we take this to its logical conclusion, eventually the human race would die-out.

    Suppose Ty, all that was left on this world was an 85 year old you, a 16 year old homosexual boy, and a 17 year old homosexual girl. What would you do? Would you tell them how great and normal being gay was, and promote the imminent extinction of the human race, or…. would you try to "pray the gay away"?

    • Ty  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 1:03 pm

      You just described a variation on one of the earliest scenarios that I wondered over as a very young child that put cracks in the dogma of religion.

      All mankind came from a male and female, adam and eve. But for that to happen, their children would have to mate with…. themselves. So all of humanity is the product of divine incest. But incest is supposedly bad. Not a great foundation there with those kinds of contradictions.

      As for gay animals, if all there were in the world were gay animals and gay people, that would be terrible. Species and people would die off in that world without some other interventions. But we do not live in that world, and religious dogma is not maintaining the world we have, animus to the infinitesimal number of gays that exist because of the divine screw up of your just/loving/kind god is not going to make the human species turn into a non procreating species. It's absurd, but the conservative religious dogmatist is still afraid.

      This is why I am so hostile to conservative religions ideologues. Terrible assumptions about the world coupled with awful coercive standards to oppress anyone that does not conform to the religious model you've bent the knee too. You want fellow converts to live near and support, you can't be bothered to tolerate others to the same degree. So even when people from outside come into the fold, like Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley, you accept them as fell christians, as the converted.

      What would your acceptance be of Tulsi Gabbard? A hindu? Conform, or be shunned.

      And now you all are mad that some of the REST of us outside those that tyrannical little home owners association you've constructed for yourselves don't accept you for your awful behavior? You are god damn right I don't accept you. I am a hater of haters. Guilty. I am NOT a tolerant human being to all people, and people who HATE on others are on my sh*t list. And that most definitely includes anti gay social conservatives.

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 2:17 pm

        Ty
        Per usual, you mischaracterize, and generalize your opponents into broad, convenient categories. It’s an interesting insight into your corrupt psyche.
        It must be what enables and justifies your hate.
        For example, I have been to church, probably less than 10 times in my entire life. But, I bet you group me with your imaginary “social conservatives” group.
        You don’t have to be overly-religious, to reject the BS you and your ilk have tried to shove down our collective throats.
        Boys are not girls.
        Girls are not boys.
        A dog is not a cat.
        Marriage is between a man and a woman, no matter what 9, unelected people say.
        So, tell me this Ty…. how do gay men, marry women, and then procreate?
        As a straight guy, I could NEVER have sex with a dude. My stuff would NOT WORK.
        It is an impossibility.
        So, how does that work in reverse?

      • Nani Tavares  •  Jul 15, 2018 at 3:33 am

        Ty, where in the Bible is it written that Adam and Eve were the only beings that God created? They were the first, and two SONS were mentioned: Cain and Abel. Of course they weren't the only children they had or the rest of humanity would not exist. Obviously others were created and these people could mate without incest. It is you who are making the assumptions and promoting hatred of something you have little knowledge of.

        Are you trying to promote incest? Is that "normal" to you? If not, why not? What do you base your belief that incest is wrong on? Surely not the religion you so hate. If incest is not wrong, then do you believe in father/daughter relations or just brother and sister. If the father/daughter is wrong because of age, would relations between father and daughter be ok if the daughter was 18?

      • Rizzo  •  Jul 15, 2018 at 11:23 am

        "You just described a variation on one of the earliest scenarios that I wondered over as a very young child that put cracks in the dogma of religion."

        And, therein lies the problem. You, and the left, have NEVER EVOLVED, or DEVELOPED beyond the ponderings of a "very young child". The left proves EVERYDAY, they are nothing but children. They act like children. They "think" like children. And, they want big-daddy government to take care of them (cradle-to-grave), LIKE CHILDREN.

        It's time to GROW UP, Ty!

    • Paul  •  Jul 14, 2018 at 10:13 pm

      Rizzo I have no hate for god with that said I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here because there is going to be a lot of morally gray questions coming. There will have to be a dialogue as a society for when the time comes many things that are set in stone will be transmutable. Some good some bad for example Drugs that stop or slow the rate of aging or tech that can change who or what we are before we are even born. That is why I asked what will be the new Normal? The march of science and technology Is always forward. We should ponder what it is that we will do when it gets here.

  4. Rizzo  •  Jul 15, 2018 at 12:30 am

    Yes, sometimes breakthroughs in technology, medical, etc., can present society with moral questions.
    Having said that, I’m not going to reject reality.
    I’m not going to pretend a man is a woman, and vice-versa.

    • Rizzo  •  Jul 15, 2018 at 10:46 am

      Paul
      "there is going to be a lot of morally gray questions coming"
      Coming? There are many questions, RIGHT NOW, that we can't get right… and they are far from "gray".
      So, it gives me little hope, when you have moronic, ideologues, that we will have the capacity to get it right in the future.
      You literally have people, like Ty, who want you to believe, if a MAN thinks or feels like they are a WOMAN, then we must ALL PRETEND that he is a woman. We must afford that MAN of all of the things that come with being a WOMAN. He must now be allowed to use the women's bathroom. We must NOT stare at the bearded-lady, like was done at the circus sideshows.
      The left has expanded their circus sideshow EVERYWHERE, and demand that we pretend it's normal. It's not.
      Bottom-line, NOBODY would even care, but the left has to try and shove it down our throats everyday. People like Ty, want us to reconfigure society and destroy our time-tested institutions for "the infinitesimal number of gays" that exist. Its crazy! They are crazy, and I'm not participating. It is wrong, and I will fight it.

  5. Bob Guertling  •  Jul 16, 2018 at 4:11 pm

    I hate Faggot more than any group of people on my life. I hope a disease a thousand times as powerful as AIDS will arise that will remove every single faggot from the planet

    • Rizzo  •  Jul 16, 2018 at 5:26 pm

      Starting with you and your poisoned soul.

      Now go away, Troll.

  6. Just the same  •  Jul 16, 2018 at 6:05 pm

    I have been hated all my 60 years for being a gay guy by some folks. That’s life. I’m sure Medved has been hated for being Jewish. Both can be questioned and criticized. Everything can, or should be able to be criticized. That is freedom. How can people learn to defend their point of view if we have all these sacred cows that can’t be challenged. As long as there is no physical abuse of the kids, then no harm is done. Until you leave home you are under your parents rules. I would say that if you have ever been through any same sex reparative therapy, you should be open about it with any opposite sex person you are going to marry. Every Hetrosexual woman deserves to be married to a straight man.

  7. Tony Bear  •  Jul 17, 2018 at 7:34 am

    I think we need to restrict hate speech. I am not gay, but bullying people for being gay is evil. Just as calling people gay as an insult when they are not gay is also evil. We do need to have some restrictions on freedom of speech, on bullying and hate speech.
    I read a story that looked at this issue on Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07F1ZN32W

    • Rizzo  •  Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 am

      WRONG!
      Limiting free-speech, based on your vague parameters of “hate speech”, is an absurd concept, and is TOTALLY antithetical to American values, enshrined in our Constitution.

    • Just the same  •  Jul 17, 2018 at 9:31 pm

      This gay dude would like the freedom to trash evangelicals, Catholics, and especially Muslims who want to kill me. The first amendment wasn’t to protect popular speech-it doesn’t need protecting by definition

  8. Eric  •  Jul 21, 2018 at 3:04 pm

    While I often agree with Michael, here his analogy is deeply flawed. What difference does it make what gender the person is attracted to if their behavior is inapppropriate? Standards of conduct should be universal no mattter the sexual orientation of those engaging in it. To specifically target same sex attraction is an attempt to moralize traits that some people are uncomfortable dealing with whether intentional or not denigrates gay people. Behavior is moral in nature and open to criticism; who a person is attracted to is not. The idea that gay people have the choice to be gay is not reasoning; it's rationalization of religious dogma and does not pass the test of critical thinking. Hatred toward gay people is rooted in this particular idea; one can not nurture the root and the then disavow the fruit it produces.

    • Just the same.  •  Jul 21, 2018 at 8:02 pm

      Look I can’t stand evangelicals or Muslims,not to mention devout Catholics. Why take away my right as a gay man to persuade people that they are asses? The largest growing faith, is no faith. Let people spread that gospel. We are winning. Freedom from religion begins with free speech. I could care a less if parents send their gay kids to ex gay camp. I wish I had been sent, I might have come out a lot earlier than 25 years old.

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