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Real Life Losses, Abstract Gains

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To understand why right-wing activists make a mistake in pushing deportation of so-called “Dreamers” we should consider the reasons for our consistent victories in defending gun rights.

For gun-owners, this is a personal issue—restrictive regulations are an interference, or an annoyance, with real-world impact. For those who choose not to own firearms, gun control is an abstraction—with no effect on the way you live.

Similarly, for 800,000 undocumented immigrants brought here as children through no fault of their own, the ability to get a work permit is a big deal, and fear of deportation is a direct concern. Meanwhile, it’s hard to see any personal benefit for anyone else in forcing these people from the country.

President Trump is right to ask Congress to protect the Dreamers.

Any action threatening negative consequences on a significant group of people, without offering concrete benefits to someone else, amounts to bad policy and terrible politics.

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  1. Rizzo  •  Sep 19, 2017 at 12:27 pm

    Rule of law is now an abstract gain?

  2. Jim Bird  •  Sep 19, 2017 at 3:55 pm

    So we're into "significant groups" illegal alien voters now. I literally hate the Republican Party, the A/C D/C Party (appeasement/cowards and destructive/collusionists). Why have a wall? Why have laws or founding documents? Are the 800,000 still orphans and did their families and friends follow suit? What precincts did Obama put them and how much are their welfare checks? How many times have they voted so far – 200/300?

    Why do the GOP in DC think, the voters who put them in office, are stupid.

  3. Nani Tavares  •  Sep 19, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    Another case of putting the attention on the wrong people. These aren't "dreamers"; their parents may have been but they aren't as they've lived the dream. And doesn't it sound so nice? So fluffy? How can anyone not want to give them citizenship as they are hard working, contributing "members" of our society. And how do we dare to make them pay for the sins of their parents?

    Why aren't people concern about the millions who went thru all the hoops and did it legally? And all those still waiting for their chance at the "dream"? I personally have heard from so many who are angry that they followed the rules and spent years and money to get here and to get their family here, only to have talk about compassion for those who showed no respect for America's laws. These people work 2, 3 jobs to make sure their kids make use of every opportunity and will brook no ingratitude to their adoptive country. Many of them were just as poor, just as desperate, is it fair or compassionate to ignore their efforts to become a part of this country the right way?

    And I am suspicious of the claim that illegals contribute to our country. Their entitlement tone doesn't sound like someone who EARNED their way. Their ingratitude doesn't come across as someone who values the American culture.

    I get that the reason this is such a heart string topic for Dems is because they realized that having Blacks in their voting pocket wasn't enough; unfortunately because they still own academia, Hollywood, and the media, there will have to be some compromise. I will accept the 800k being here on permanent visa but NO automatic citizenship. And they only get visas if they can show they are accepting no social services. There will be no piggy backing relatives and if they want citizenship, they go to the back of the line. If they try to pull the violin of "people starving" and "needing shelter", then they are NOT contributing to our society are they? And there will absolutely be no more "dreamers", period, end of story.

    No one wants to be heartless but there is practicality, which I am. If given a choice between those who will earn the right to be here and contribute to our nation and those who's dream is to be taken care of, I choose the former.

  4. Jim Bird  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 1:02 am

    Love your commentary Nani. I too know several immigrants who paid there own way, and talk about being livid! They all had 2 or more jobs and, after learning the language, settled into their vocation. Without exception they all own their homes and appreciate being American. The 800k were mostly kids who were put on welfare on day one – I bet 80% are still on welfare today.

  5. Rizzo  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 9:25 am

    "President Trump is right to ask Congress to protect the Dreamers."
    – Wouldn't it be great if someone asked Congress to protect The American Way of life, the American culture, and the AMERICAN CITIZEN?

    Medved acts like the blatant disregard for the rule of law has NO CONSEQUENCES FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZENS. The government refuses to seriously enforce border security. As a result, they have invitedMILLIONS OF ILLEGALS into our country, who don't speak the language, they don't know, understand or appreciate the American culture, they immediately take advantage of our welfare system, there is no attempt to assimilate and I can go on and on and on…. and what does Medved say… he talks about action threatening negative consequences on illegals. How about INACTION that has threatened the entire US CITIZENRY? No, that doesn't matter in his mind… that just an "abstract gain".

    Taking seriously the rule of law is NO ABSTRACT GAIN. Ignoring immigration law, has REAL LIFE CONSEQUENCES AND CREATES REAL LIFE LOSSES FOR THE CITIZENS WHO LIVE THERE.

    • Jim Bird  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 7:39 pm

      Please run for office Rizzo!!!

  6. Semitro  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 10:44 am

    God wants us as a nation to treat the alien with respect because God's people were once aliens in Egypt. God will bless us as a nation. We as a nation was good at this at one time, lets continue that tradition today!

    • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 12:37 pm

      Semitro, I find it odd when people talk about "good", kindness, forgiveness, love when appealing to our spirituality as thou God never gave us laws and warned us that there are consequences for not following the rules.

    • Fungah!  •  Sep 23, 2017 at 2:07 am

      The texts were pretty specific when talking about how to treat aliens. It was a personal choice to be charitable, similar to love your neighbor. This is not the province of government, it is a command for me as an individual to be kind. The government must enforce the law. When a person breaks the law, they are no longer a friendly or neutral party in the eyes of the government, they are a criminal. I may still choose to treat them with respect and kindness as a civilian, but as an official it would be my duty to enforce the law.

      I understand that some people had no choice when they were brought here illegally, but they are still here illegally. We need to enforce the law or there is no point in having law.

      DACA is not law. It was a poorly conceived executive order that was outside the authority of the executive branch. Trump has asked Congress to do it's job and either change existing law or allow current law to remain in place. Trump will then enforce the law. This is the right way to proceed.

    • Ty  •  Sep 24, 2017 at 12:59 pm

      Semitro, you missed the memo, the right worships a new GOD, and christians listening to Jesus? Not among the anti immigrant right. They serve a HIGHER God. Nativism, cultural preservation-ism, can't let in and have too many of THOSE people stay-ism.

      If Jesus came down in a beam of light and shielded a dreamer from deportation after being here for 20 years, large chunks of the right would cheer on the ICE officers raising their guns to rip them away from this nation. THEIR nation, a nation for THEIR people and only who THEY deem fit and worthy. The views of Jesus means NOTHING to these people, step aside lord and savior, now is not the time for mercy and grace (that's only for GOOD people like US!) – now is the time for blind enforcement of the letter of the law.

      Jesus – I understand my children, you wish to stay true to the laws of god and mankind, and what if we change the law, have a "new covenant" to allow more grace and mercy for some of the people here that have been productive and decent?

      Trump-Wing of the republican party – NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!! SHUT the saviors mouth !!!!!! We don't WANT the law changed !!!!!!! We don't WANT them to be legal, We JUST want THOSE PEOPLE GONE !!!!!!!!!! They are not like us, they speak another language, they just commit crime and rape and use up welfare, they are TAKERS, cancers, wretches, dragging us GOOD people down. No more room on this life boat, you are all on your own, don't come here asking to live and stay, you are not welcome, ONLY the people our tiny sliver of the nation decides is welcome is welcome, and that is not YOU. Don't you DARE change the law, that would NOT sate us. We WANT it to be illegal for ANY of them to stay, we don't want ANY of the illegals here, we don't CARE what'd they've done with their lives, we don't CARE how many attachments they have made and what kind of life they've built. NONE of that matters, they are CRIMINALS, EVERYTHING they are as human beings is superseded by their criminal nature.

      Jesus : (marks down people to be sent on the path of Dante)

      What I just highlighted there, is EXACTLY how large chunks of the right actually thinks. Do not deny it, you listen to your fellow conservatives on talk radio calling in, or in comments. What about how I characterized is wrong? I did not put some shiny sheen on the views and attitude, but they don't deserve such treatment. Let my mirror of their own views show them for what they are. Graceless, hateful people. There are plenty on the right that are not like that, but they are bound to those hateful losers and need them to survive. politically.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm

        Ty

        You might be the biggest ass-clown ever. No sovereign nation in world history has ever done what you advocate for. Nations have borders. Nations have legal immigration systems. Nations have laws. These FACTS, don't make you a nativist. It makes you an intelligent nation.

        You, on the other hand, are an unintelligent anarchist.

  7. LogTimeListener  •  Sep 20, 2017 at 7:37 pm

    The fix (allowing illegal aliens that arrived in the US before the age of majority to stay in the US) will not be a fix, anymore than Reagan's "one time" amnesty was a fix. Allowing "dreamers" to stay will result in allowing their parents, older siblings, and grandparents to stay (in the name of not breaking up families). DACA is chain migration by another name.

  8. Fungah!  •  Sep 23, 2017 at 1:48 am

    We need to get back to simple concise laws that are enforced. The purpose of government is the establishment and enforcement of the rule of law. Compassion is not a function of government. Charity is not the province of government. These are personal choices that are laudable when performed by individuals as their own expense. When government mandates compassion and charity they transform into tyranny and slavery.

    It's one thing for me to give half my lunch to a stranger, it's something very different for an official to force me to do it. I can have compassion as I earn my pay, the government cannot as all it's resources are confiscated from citizens.

    Rule of law must be simple and concise. It deals with thou shalt not and consequences. It cannot stray into province of charity and compassion.

    I cannot see how rewarding those who committed illegal acts ends with a positive result. This mess is a direct result of not enforcing the law. To double down on what caused the problem seems an odd way to find a solution.

    The media and the liberals will not relent. The law only applies when it helps their agenda. There will be a compromise and the rule of law will lose ground. If Trump can get some system of e-verification and boarder security it may not be a total loss.

    DACA could be a good bargaining chip if played well.

    • Nani Tavares  •  Sep 23, 2017 at 6:20 pm

      Fungah! Of course you are right but we need to be practical. In order to win this argument one has to get two things:

      1- Academia, Hollywood, and the Media is owned and controlled by the Left. They have systematically moved the narrative from doing what is right to what FEELS right.

      2- Facts, laws, and rules are cold and like it or not, most of this generation has not grown up and has been encouraged to continue their rebellious delinquency. It is the height of cool to embrace one's feelings and ideals, not understand that without laws there can be no civility.

      America does NOT belong to the Left nor the Right. The majority CAN be swayed but only if you first appeal to their sense of fairness and justice. There is nothing fair or just about giving amnesty to people because their parents broke the law while millions wait their turn to "dream" and give their children the chance to dream. There is nothing cool about children who were brought here expecting to be taken care of while millions work 2, 3 jobs and long hours to provide for their kids and who expect their children to VALUE this country and love her. There is nothing compassionate about rewarding parents for bring kids who cannot speak English and was never encouraged to speak English and being part of this neglect by allowing their kids to go on with this language barrier and cultural disconnect.

      Compromise may seem like a dirty word and one that tastes like vinegar, but at this point, unless we can get the word out and challenge each Liberal propaganda, we will lose all. I think we need to make sure that if these people can remain here they do so on a work visa–with the emphasis on WORK.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 23, 2017 at 8:15 pm

        How about, if you're not a US citizen, and you can't prove citizenship, it's illegal for employers to hire you? And, if you're not a US citizen, you are elgible for exactly ZERO tax-funded entitlements?
        No job, no "free money", the illegals (all colors, nationalities, religions, races, whatever) will self-deport. The leftists will love it. It will have an all-inclusive, diverse impact on ALL ILLEGALS.
        Probably not a perfect solution, but it's a start to restoring law and order.

  9. Rizzo  •  Sep 23, 2017 at 2:58 pm

    Fungah!
    Amen brutha. It is so refreshing to read the words of another intelligent, well-reasoned individual.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Be well.

  10. Rizzo  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 3:04 pm

    Ty…. I wonder if you would support not imprisoning people who are tax-evaders?
    People go to jail all the time for not paying their taxes.
    How can the government do this? They are breaking up families.
    They are punishing kids. Kids, who by no fault of their own, are losing their Parents.
    You vicious, money-hungry, leftists, are destroying families with your cruel tax laws.
    Perhaps, you will support ending the imprisonment of people, who are tax-evaders, if they did so while they had/have young children…. We can call them something cute, like "Imaginers" or "fluffy cloud rainbow unicorns".
    Will you support this Ty? Or will you cruelly follow the rule of law?

    • Ty  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 3:37 pm

      I absolutely do not support imprisoning most tax evaders. I would rather we made other options available for people to get back in good standing than jailing people. Am I ok with jailing SOME of them? Sure. But all? Not the people who make a good faith effort to get back in good standing. If there was some willful laundering of money for illicit ends, then maybe we put those people in jail. Give me a specific case and I will have to determine that on a case by case basis. We have prosecutorial discretion. Do I think most people should get tossed in jail for DECADES for tax evasion? No. Al Capone? Yes. I am willing to adjust sentencing and penalties depending on the case. Just like immigration. It is segments of the RIGHT that refuse to do that. There is only ONE penalty that we will allow and MUST enforce. Deportation. I am generally against mandatory minimum sentencing, but more tolerant of mandatory maximum sentencing guidelines. But you will note, this is me, a liberal, erring on the side of grace and mercy compared to the conservative impulse of retribution and ruthlessness.

      Like I've said many times, I, an ATHEIST, am more in line with the teachings of Jesus than so called christian conservatives. Because their own theology and the values it teaches take a back seat to their true master, a virulent strain of cruelty laced conservatism.

      • Ty  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 3:47 pm

        And for the record, do you know how many people caught crossing the border illegally I want deported? Virtually all of them. I am NOT for totally open borders, the difference between myself and the hate filled nativist right, is that I am not so zealous in maintaining cultural preservation and worried about displacement by non whites that I want to start ripping people who slipped through decades ago from their lives.

        I do not believe crossing illegally is even malicious law breaking. Stealing is, assault is, try to migrate to a wealthier nation to have a better life? Those THUGS !!!!!! No. Not thugs, desperate people who are not evil, trying to have a better life and breaking the law to achieve it. Not refuse, not trash, many decent people. Does that mean we do not turn them away if caught at the border? No. But it certainly means slapping this attitude of looking at such people as nothing be cancers on society that have already been here for years down. That lack of charity towards THOSE people, the dehumanization, the castigation of the other, is a dark hallmark of the nativist right.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 5:23 pm

        Thank God you are an atheist. Because you have a SERIOUS confusion between law and religion.
        My God, if you were not Godless Heathen, you would be running our country like a theocracy.
        That's the thing with you leftists, you don't care how you get centralized power, you just know you want it. Whether by religious, or socialist means, you advocate for central power by any means necessary.

      • Rizzo  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 5:28 pm

        Moron… Earth to Moron…. Come in Moron.
        Do you even know what the purpose of immigration policy is?
        We…. The US, is not meant to be stopping grounds for anybody, and everybody that wants to come here.
        Our immigration policy is SOLELY for the benefit of US CITIZENS. We are NOT Mother Theresa. Got it moron?
        Now again, I beseech you, please stop EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.

  11. Rizzo  •  Sep 25, 2017 at 5:38 pm

    Who remembers when leftist, liberals used to say: Don't push your morality on me?
    Now, that's all they want to preach. They want to force their false-morality onto all of us, and ignore the logic of immigration law.

    Is there any level to which they won't stoop to push their leftist ideology?

  12. Harvey Homan  •  Sep 30, 2017 at 3:39 pm

    I'd trade an NFL player-protester for a dreamer every time. Dreamers want to live and work here. These protesters claim racist police are the reason so many blacks are in prison. The players clearly haven't done their homework on this issue. A few exceptions don't explain away the fact Blacks commit more crimes. Michael Bennett is lying about his experience in Las Vegas and I just wish we could deport him and see how he reacts to real injustice somewhere else. Let him take a knee then.

  13. Rizzo  •  Sep 30, 2017 at 4:08 pm

    Harvey… Have you not heard?
    Black Lies Matter

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